I am your father’s brother’s nephew’s cousin’s former roommate
That’s a line from Spaceballs. The response to that was: “What does that make us?”, and the answer, “Nothing.”
Liberal blogger, Big City Lib is boasting of his scandale du jour - that a poll was done by a group called the CLC – Campaign Life Coalition, this poll was carried out by a company called KLRVU Research. KLRVU Research shares a phone line with a company called Laser Cut Designs, at which works is owned by ‘Allan and Katherine’ who are related to a Winnipeg-area MP.
This BigCityLib fellow is implying that – if his weird accusations are true – Winnipeg MP Rod Bruinooge is responsible for the perfectly legal actions of his brother. I happened to have worked with that particular Winnipeg-area MP, been on conference calls with their campaign team, and I never heard of Allan or Katherine. If they weren’t around for the campaign, then I do have to wonder just how ‘involved’ they are – or the relevance of any implied connection.
So work it out – an MP’s brother’s company’s phone line is share with a polling firm connected to a push poll done by a pro-life group. What does that make this? ‘NOTHING’. How bloody stupid.
This is precisely the kind of petty innuendo that makes people think bloggers are a gang of perennially enraged nuts.
I don’t think your summary of BCL’s posts (and those of JJ (unrepentant old hippie) whose digging kicked all this off) quite gets at the issue.
The broader question, I think, is the use of fraudulent polls as propaganda.
balbulican
July 24, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Nope. Allen Bruinooge runs the polling firm as well as the laser engraving firm. He has said as much. See Unrepentant Old Hippy through my links.
bigcitylib
July 24, 2008 at 5:47 pm
BCL – thanks for the correction. I’ve updated the post.
Balb. – that’s a different take than I had thought, but it doesn’t change much of what I’ve said. And that is that an MP is not responsible for the actions of his family.
Robert
July 24, 2008 at 7:17 pm
I agree, but I don’t think that’s the main point. There’s been a lot of discussion about freeping polls; but custom designing polls to produce a doctored finding that rebuts a conclusion you don’t like is taking it to a whole new level.
O tempora…o mores….
balbulican
July 24, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Balb. Same old level. Push polls aren’t a new thing. People have done it for ages – you prep people with leading yes/no statements that paint your issue/party in a favourable light, then ask the ‘money’ question you’ll give to the press.
For example: http://www.straight.com/article/are-polls-pushing-voters-toward-liberals
Check the poll out in the sidebar.
Robert
July 24, 2008 at 10:10 pm
(Wryly) Thank you, Robert. I am familiar with the concept. And the fact that push polling is not a “new thing” mitigates criticism of its use in this case…how?
balbulican
July 24, 2008 at 10:34 pm
It changes the issue. It’s a blandly common polling technique. So the issue isn’t – ‘is this a legitimate thing being done?’ because for better or worse, everyone does it, and it’s apparently accepted.
The issue in this case is, and the way BCL frames it – is it relevant that a relative of a politician is doing this? And the answer is ‘No’.
Robert
July 24, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Umm, no Robert. They are called “push” polls, rather than legitimate, honest to gawd polls, for a reason. They are the kind of polls you don’t accept, unless you can’t get anyone to do a legitimate poll for you because a legitimate poll won’t give you your predetermined answer. In that you hire some guy to poll for you that spends most of his time making “corporate gifts for all occasions”, who just happens to have connections with ultra-conservatives in government.
bigcitylib
July 25, 2008 at 10:19 am
“It changes the issue.”
More correctly, it repositions the issue into a context you’re more comfortable responding to.
“It’s a blandly common polling technique.”
(Blandly?) It is NOT common among legitimate researchers or evaluators. In fact, we attempt to eliminate it at the design stage – IF the desired outcome is a valid assessment of opinion within the sample.
“So the issue isn’t – ‘is this a legitimate thing being done?’ because for better or worse, everyone does it, and it’s apparently accepted.”
Propagandists design “polls” structured deliberately to yield a specific outcome, through manipulative questions, skewed sample selection, selective response validation, or any of a dozen techniques. Serious researchers structure their instruments and process to avoid those errors to the extent possible.
But a propaganda poll is only valid if a certain percentage of the readership accept it as valid research. What BCL, JJ and others are doing is trying to ensure that readers, to the extent possible, know that they’re dealing here with propaganda, not research.
Parenthetically, it’s a bit depressing to see Conservative supporters slowly morph in their stance from “This is a principle-driven party” to “hey, we’re hardly any more dishonest than the other guys, yet.”
balbulican
July 25, 2008 at 11:11 am
Balb. I disagree – what I think BCL & co. are trying to do is to link this issue to the Conservative Party. The poll – I don’t give a damn about it. Random lobby groups use push polls all the time – I’m sure those are the only kind of polls they know how to do.
I seriously doubt that anyone is shocked – shocked! – to find a pro-life group doing a push poll. But from BCL’s post we don’t see a lot written about polling techniques. We DO see a lot written about Rod Bruinooge and tangentical connections to him.
And that remains the main issue – i.e the attempts by some to link this to the Party – and Balb, you partly make my point for me.
Your wrote:
“Parenthetically, it’s a bit depressing to see Conservative supporters slowly morph in their stance from “This is a principle-driven party” to “hey, we’re hardly any more dishonest than the other guys, yet.””
‘WE’ are hardly more dishonest? Why do you think the Conservative Party is being discussed here? Abortion is not part of the Tory platform, this poll was not done by a Tory or a group aligned to Tories. The only way you can make this a Tory issue is by using the family member of an MP.
Yes, I am told by BCL, that the third party who did the polling was once ran for a Tory nomination. Well, any nut can run for a nomination. John Shavluk ran for an NDP nomination – yet, we don’t hold it against them. Yes he’s related but it’s irrelevant. For gods’ sake look at the Chretien family – if we dragged family members into it, we’d still be mired in that particular Pol’s cesspool of a clan.
Robert
July 25, 2008 at 1:44 pm
I see your point. I guess I assumed that BCL’s response to the issue is the same as mine (“God, I HATE the manipulation of polling by propagandists, and I don’t care who’s doing it”.) But having read his post, he IS focusing on the Tory connection.
balbulican
July 25, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Because the Tory connection is part of the whole lack of cred issue. Does anyone really expect a decent poll on Morgentaler to result when you hire a semi-pro/amateur pollster who is a Tory organizer and brother of a pro-life Tory MP. And why did it take sleuthing to find all this stuff out? KLRVU sure wasn’t trumpeting the links.
It would also be fun to find out whether these guys were involved in this
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2006/01/20/to_phoneblast20060120.html
bigcitylib
July 25, 2008 at 2:13 pm
BCL – If you’re going to attack the “poll” then attack it. But a pro-life push poll isn’t much of a story then is it’? It’s only a story – actually, a scandal – if you drag an MP into it. Well the fact is that he is not involved. The only way you can claim that he is involved is if you say that his brother’s actions reflect on him.
That’s dirty politics – we can all play it. We don’t.
There’s a lot of scandal out there if you want to find it. Did Bill Graham’s rumoured proclivities have anything to do with his vote to raise the age of sexual consent? Did Michel Chretien’s conviction have an effect on his father’s approach to law and order?
It’s fun to theorize, but it’s bullshit.
Robert
July 25, 2008 at 3:08 pm
[...] DIGGING FOR NOTHING: “I am your father’s brother’s nephew’s cousin’s former roommate” …. [...]
Steynian 208 « Free Mark Steyn!
July 28, 2008 at 4:29 pm